INTERVIEW NO. 26		DATE OF INTERVIEW:   13th December, 1991.
MRS. PHILLIS		**This copy has been edited
67 RIVERSTONE ROAD	      by Mrs. Phillis
RIVERSTONE.		      [Edited changes are added
			       in bold italic script.]

0.22	My name is Winsome Phillis and I'm living at 67 Riverstone Road, Riverstone.  I was born on the 5th March, l929 and I was born in Riverstone at what was called Sister Barnes' Maternity Hospital.  I am married.  I am an Australian, and I have three children.

0.49	First of all how long have you lived in this area?  All your life?

	I was born here.

0.56	And a few questions about your family background.  What kind of work did your father do?

	He worked at the Meatworks.  He used to work in the margarine department.

	And is that very close by here?

	It's on the other side of town, but Dad used to work to work.  We lived in Regent Street which was half a dozen streets down towards the town, and I suppose it would have taken about l5 minutes or 20 twenty minutes to walk to work.

	And did your mother work?

	No Mum never worked.

	And did you have any brothers or sisters?

	Yes.  I have one brother and two sisters.

1.37	So you went to school in the area, and did you walk to school?

	We always walked to school.

	It wasnt' a very long walk, I suppose, from where you were?

	Well the Infants' School ... did you come past Garfield Road?  

	No.

	Well Garfield Road is the main street through the town and the Infants' School is on the corner, more or less in this direction just down this way, and we always walked to school and walked home.  We didn't have a car.

	Didn't you?

	We never had a car.

2.11	So how did you manage to get around?  Did you rely on public transport or did you walk?

	Well we relied on the trains if we went anywhere and ... well, we just went to places that you walked to in the town - the picture-show and the school and the church.

2.31	And was there a bus service?  

	No.  Not when we were young.

	So if you needed to go further afield you went by train?

	We went by train.

2.43	And what was the house like that you lived in.  That is the photograph there of the weatherboard house.  It's a typical weatherboard house of that era I suppose?  When would it have been built?

	It would have been built in 1924.

	And your parents had it built for them?

	Yes, it was built for them.

	How many bedrooms was it?

	Well, originally ... ah,now let me see ... originally there were two bedrooms in the front there.  Behind this bedroom was a ... well, a living room, and behind this bedroom was a room that was the kitchen and the bathroom was attached to the back on a little back verandah.  And then a few years later my parents had this back area put on, which gave them a big kitchen, a bathroom/laundry, and a back verandah.

	So was that while you were still living there?

	Yes.

3.51	So you had an inside toilet did you?

	No.  We didn't have.  The toilet was out the back.  It was a bathroom and a laundry but it didn't have a toilet in it.  No, we always had the toilet out the back.  It was a separate small timber building about 20 feet from the back door.  It contiained a wooden seat with a black Sanitary Can underneath;  the used Can was removed every week by the Sanitary Carter and replaced by a clean empty can.

4.10	And that was for quite a while, I suppose, until you got the sewer on?

	We didn't get the sewer on here until about ten years ago.

	Really!

	And it was one of the best things to happen to the district!  (Laughs)

4.24	And so this house of your parents was on a fairly large block was it?

	I suppose it would be a 60 foot frontage.

	You had neighbours close by, next door?  It looks like it there.

	No.  That was an empty block.  Actually when the house was built my grandparents had all this - it would have been about three blocks of land on the corner of Regent Street and Railway Terrace - and my grandparents built the house on the corner there and my Uncle Charlie and Aunt Alice lived in the house and looked after the grandparents.  And when the grandparents - they died - my father got married and they split up the land and Charlie and Alice kept this area and my father had this area, which gave a big block there and then the house block.  So this area was a big ...

	A big empty garden, was it?

	Yes.  They had vegetable gardens, but we used to just call it 'the paddock'.  And there was another empty space on the other side, too.

5.45	So you had plenty of space around you?

	We had plenty of room to play in.  We used to have a bonfie in the paddock when it was Bonfire Night.

	And your father grew vegetables?

	Yes.  He had a small vegetable garden and Uncle Charlie had a vegetable garden.

	And did you have any chooks?

	I believe we did at one time, but I can't remember very much about the chooks.  I must have been only very young.

6.10	And did your mother have electrical appliances when you were small?

	The electricity came to Riverstone in the 1930's and before that she had a fuel stove in the kitchen and a fuel copper in the laundry. But when the electricity came she got a fuel stove and a refrigerator eventually.

	An electric stove you mean?

	And electric stove.

	And what about vacuum cleaners and toasters and things like that?

	Well, not straight away, but she did eventually get those things.

6.59	And what about shopping?  Did she have to walk to the shop and carry her things home or did she get them delivered?

	A lot of people came around.  Who was it?  I think the butcher came around and the milkman always came around, and there used to be a couple of people came around with green-groceries.  I remember there was an old lady came around in a horse and cart with vegetables and that.  I can't think of her name.  And the groceries - the fellow from the shop would come and collect your order and then deliver it.  So Mum did not have to go and carry her shopping.  

	And without a car that would have been a lot wouldn't it?

7.47	And so what would her daily routine have been?  She would have been in the house doing housework?

	She was in the house.  Housework and cooking.  

	And did she make jams and preserves?

	Yes.  She made jam and cooked cakes.  A lot more cooking than we do now.

8.05	And did she belong to any community groups or Mothers' Clubs or anything like that?

	She belonged to the Church Guild, but with four children she didn't have a lot of outside time.  I think most of the time she just stopped at home and did things like that.  But she worked for the Guild and every year they had a stall.  Well she did sewing and craft work to help with the stall.

	And did she make your clothes when you were children?

	Yes.  I think she made all our clothes.

	Did she?

	Knitted and crocheted.  She did wonderful craft work.  She would still be doing wonderful craft work only that her eyes ... she's 94 ... she's living in a nursing home and she can't see, which has been a great disappointment to her.   But she did lovely craft work.

9.03	So when you finished at primary school, did you go to high school in the area?

	Well, when we finished here at sixth class we went to Parramatta Domestic Science School because there was no high school in the area then.  We used to go on the train - steam train of course - but everybody did it.  You know, everybody just went to school on the train and that was that.

	It was authomatic?  And did you go on to any tertiary education after school?

	No I left when I was 15.

	At the Intermediate, in those days?

	Yes.  The Intermediate.

9.42	What did you do then?

	Well I went into town and I did a Comptometer course at Peacock's Comptometer College in Martin Place.  Do you know what a contometer is?

	Yes.  I remember contometers!  Only just!

	Just.  (Laughs)  Well I learned the contometer in Sydney and first of all I worked in Sydney at Nestles and the Railway, just doing that work.  Oh, a few years I would have worked in Sydney, and there again we had to go on the train and catch the seven o'clock train in the morning and get home about seven at night.

	A long day?

	It was a long day but we just took it as a matter of course.  There was always a group of us and we had company.

10.23	You travelled with your friends? 

	Yes.  Because there wasn't a lot of work around here then.  And then after a few years in town I suppose I was a bit sick of the travelling.  I went to work down at the office at the Meatworks and I learned the accounting machine - the National accounting machine.  I really enjoyed that.

	And so you then worked here did you?

	At Riverstone.

10.51	And what did you do as a child for recreation and in the holidays?

	Well, we always seemed to have friends and when we were really little I don't really know what we did.  We just played out in the paddock and played with our dolls and played with our things.  Rounders and French Cricket and just games like that. 

	That was before television so it was more outdoor games?

	Oh, yes.  Outdoor games and marbles - just things like that?

	And did you go away at all for the school holidays?

	Well we used to have a week or so in Manly each Christmas, and that was great event.  

	You liked the seaside?

	Oh, yes.  That was marvellous.  And that lasted for a few years, I think.  I can't remember just how often we used to go.  I suppose I would have been about ten something like that, going to Manly.  'Cause my uncle had a car and he used to drive us to Manly in his car.  Then as we grew older we had ... our entertainment was mainly in the town.  The Church had tennis courst so when we were in our teens we used to go and play tennis.  And the Uniting Church had a Fellowship group that just went around together and Saturday nights we'd often go either to the pictures or go into Parramatta and go to the dances.  They had an old-time dance at the Town Hall and the more modern dances at what they called the Rivoli.  We'd go on the train and we'd come home at midnight.  No trouble.  Nowadays if my children go out at night I like to know, you know, 'Where are you going?  How are you going to get home?'  And they go by car.  It's not safe to go on the trains.  So I think in a way they miss out because of that.  

13.11	Yes that sense of security has changed hasn't it?

	It has.  But we'd walk home off the half-past twelve train.  No trouble.  We had the wireless after the electricity came.  We listened to the wireless of an evening, and read.  My family's always great readers.

13.36	So when did you get married?

	1953.

	And then you moved to this house?

	Yes.

13.49	And did you build this house for yourselves?

	Yes.

	Was it difficult to build a house then, after the War, or it was long enought after the War perhaps?

	Well it was very, very expensive to have a brick house built.  We didn't have that money.  We had to get a loan to have this house built.  Well, I suppose like now, you had to pay to get your house built and you didn't have a lot of money other than that.  But when this house was built it was a lot smaller than it is now.  

	And this is weatherboard isn't it?

	Yes.  When it was first built it stopped at ... that was a wall, so we had two bedrooms, a living area, a bathroom, a laundry and a kitchen and a teeny, weeny little porch.  And then we had the back verandah put on and then we had these two rooms put on.  So over the years it's grown.

14.47	And so when your children were growing up here what was it like - when you first built here?  Were there close neighbours?

	Well it was really nice.  You know, there weren't all these houses.  There was a lady next door - in this block - the lady next door and there's an old house further down the road.  Which way did you come?

	I came up this way.

	And on the other half, facing the next street there was an old house down there and nothing ... two houses up that way.  So in this whole block there was only one, two, three ... about a half a dozen houses.  So we owned the whole block right through.

	Oh, right.  I see.

	And that was all just green space.  It was really nice.  Nice and quite.  And of course there was a dirt road out there then too, so it was a bit dusty in the summer!

	And so your children had plenty of space to run around in too.

	Yes.

16.06	And did your husband grow vegetables in the garden?

Oh, he did at one time, but he's not really a gardener.

16.15	And did your children go to the same school that you went to?

	Yes.  They used to go to the Infants' School and by the time they were growing up the Primary Department was there and the High School and they were able to stop in the town.  They just went from the Infants' to the Primary to the High School.

`	And did they walk to school too?

	Yes.  They did.  We didn't get a car ... Beverley - that my youngest, she's 25 now - well she was a toddler before we got a car.  So they all walked.

	Good exercise!

	(Laughs)  Well it's not really that far.

	No.

16.58	And what would your daily routine have been like when your children were small?

	Housework!

	Yes.  What would you do.  Did you take them to school or would they go by themselves?

	They went by themselves.  I only took them to get them started and then they went by themselves.  They walked.  Well, they just seemed to have friends to walk with.  It was just the thing to do.

17.30	So you cooked and tidied up the house?  And did you do dress making?

	I made all the kiddies clothes.  Well shopping wasn't as easy then.  You had to go and do it yourself.

	Right.  And no deliveries?

	Not so many deliveries then.

17.50	And what was the shopping area like then?
	
	A lot smaller.  My husband was working then for the grocery shop down the street and ... well, he used to see to the groceries for me.  But when I got meat I had to go and get it.  I can remember I had the kiddies in the pram, or one in the pram and one walking, and a port underneath - you know the old cane prams?  

	Yes.

	For the meat and the odds-and-ends and things, and it was really quite hard work at some times.

	It would take quite a while too, I suppose, to get there and back with the children?

	Well it did.  But we often used to have a half-way house at Mum's.   Quite often we'd walk down to Mum's and sometimes we'd leave the children there and go on down the street and make a sort of a half-day social affair of it.  So that was good.  We had Mum and Auntie Alice, who was a very close aunt, next door.  And it was great having them while the children were little.  They were a real standby.

19.00	So you relied on your family for help?  You didn't have to rely on neighbours or friends so much?

	Well, I was lucky in having the family.  Yes I did.

	The extended family - it's nice to have!

	Well that's right yes.  And my sister also lives in Riverstone and her children were growing up when ours were growing up.

	So they had cousins as well.

	Oh, yes.  So we've been very lucky in that respect that we still have a family around.

19.35	And what about the neighbours?  Did you have much contact with neighbours?  Did you visit each other and have social occasions together?

	Well, we've always been very friendly.  But, no ... we didn't have a lot of social occasions.

19.56	And what about the churches in the area?  Did the church play a big role in your life?

	Well yes it did because as well as the church part of it we had the social life of the church.  We always went to Sunday School when we were kiddies and we met our friends at Sunday School.  It was a part of life.  We had the Sunday School picnic and the tennis club, and it was quite a big part of our growing up.

	And I suppose you got to know people in the community through that too?

	Oh, yes.

20.38	And did you belong to any other organisations at all like Red Cross or CWA or any of those?

	No.  Mum belonged to the Red Cross during the War.  

	Did she?

	Yes.  She and my elder sister and, I think also my aunt, they used to have a ... what did they call it during the War?  Was it some sort of a women's service that they belonged to, and they did Red Cross lessons and learned ...
	
	Red Cross Auxiliary or ...?

	Something like that.  Well they were in that during the War in case they were needed, which luckily they weren't!  We had an air-raid shelter in our backyard through the War.

	Did you?

	Yes.  In the paddock I was telling you about.  Yes.  My Uncle Charlie and my father built it.  Luckily we never had to use it.  It was just a hole in the ground with a roof and a couple of seats along each side.

	So is it still there today?

	Oh, no. Well you see it was only a hole in the ground and when it rained it got water in it.  So as soon as the War was over it was thankfully filled in.

21.57	And what about finances?  Who managed the household finances?

	Well I think probably Dad.  

	That's your father?

	Yes.

	And did he give your mother housekeeping?

	Yes.  I think he did.  I never really went into that.

	And what about when you were married, who organised the household finances in your home?

	Well I sort of do it.

	You do?

	I do it. 

	And so did your husband give you all his money to organise it or did he just give you a certain amount of housekeeping?

	Oh, well he did keep some for himself.  But once I started work - once Beverley was six - I got a part-time job.  And I've still got it!

	Have you?  Oh that's the one at the school?

	At the school, yes.  So I just sort of manage the finances and take out of the bank what we need, you know.

23.02	And do you like working down there?  

	Yes I do.

	Do you work every day or do you just ...?

	Every morning.  

	Do you?  And you have good school holidays?

	That's right.  And that was really important when the girls were little.  It has - it's been a really good job.  And I'd like to keep it up maybe for another twelve months or so.

	What's your position?  You're a secretary?

	No.  Well it started off as a Teacher's Aide, but now they call it a School Assistant.  But the main work I do is ... well it's sort of clerical work.  Just run off stencils and sharpen pencils, answer the telephone, type letters, and just general dog's-body work!  (Laughs).

	Its very necessary work though isn't it?

	It is necessary.  Somebody's got to do it, and I enjoy it.  I also play the piano for the kiddies' singing and I love that.

	Do you?  And you're musical like your mother then?  Do you play the organ at Church too?

	I do!

24.19	And did your children follow you in that way too?  Were they musical at all?

	Beverley started to learn the piano and she got on very well.  She could have been a lot better than me, only once she started growing up she didn't have time for it.  So now she doesn't play it at all!  (Laughs)  But, I did the same thing.  I had lessons when I was young and then I forgot all about it until I took it up again.

24.49	And what did your children do for recreation?

	Apart from school?

	Yes.  When they came home from school, and in the holidays?

	Oh, well that's really a hard queston.  I hadn't thought of that!

	Did you go on picnics?

	Oh, yes.  We went for a lot of picnics.

	Where to?

	Well, usually at one time through the holidays we'd go into town and go to the beach.

	Into Sydney you mean?

	Yes.  Into Sydney.  And oh, out to Cattai, and around and about.

	That was when you had the car I suppose?

	Yes.

	And did the children go to the local picture show?

	Occasionally.  Not a lot though because ... oh I don't know.  The pictures didn't seem to be that popular at that time.  We have the swimming pool down here now.  But they were never ones for wanting to go out all the time.  

	They found things to occupy themselves at home?

	Yes.  they had friends down the back and friends over the road and they had their cousins.

	And what sort of games did they play - outdoor games too, like you did as a child?

	I suppose they did.  Isn't that funny.  That's one part I hadn't thought of - what they did!

	You were probably busy working and they were entertaining themselves?

	Well they did entertain themselves.  Reading and jig-saw puzzles.

27.00	And what about health services?  Did you have your children at the local hospital?

	I had Lyn at King George's Hospital in town and then the next two I had at a private hospital at Windsor.  

	So there wasn't a hospital here at that time - nearer to here?

	Not a maternity hospital.  There was a little private hospital in Riverstone, but most of us went to the maternity hospital at Windsor.  We had doctors in Riverstone.

	Did you.  So for any emergencies you had doctors close by?

	Oh, yes. There's always been doctors in Riverstone.  And for Rosemary and Beverley I just went to the doctor down here and he went to windsor to deliver the babies and so it was quite convenient.

	And what about for dental treatment?  Did you have a dentist locally too?

	Yes, there was a dentist here too.

28.07	And what about when you were a child, did your mother have her children ... have to go into the city to have her children?

	No, we had the Sister Barnes' Hospital here then.

	Oh, right. That's where you were born.

	Yes.  Well that was right in the town then and all the mothers went there to have their babies - Sister Barnes'.

	And what happened to that?

	Oh, I guess Sister Barnes just got older and closed it up.

	Right.  And she was like a midwife was she?

	They used to say she used to know more than the doctors!

	She probably did!

	But when I was young we had to go to Parramatta to the dentist and that was an ordeal?

	What, catching the train or going to the dentist?

	Oh, goint to the dentist!  Catching the train - that was no trouble to us!

	The dentists weren't so good in those days were they?

	Oh, no.  You had to go and get a temporary filling in and the next week you had to go back and have it all drilled out again and a reall one put on.  Oh, it was terrible!

29.20	What about the roads and the transport around here in the '50s when your children were growing up?  Were the roads sealed then or were they still dirt roads?

	Well I suppose Riverstone Road out here would have been sealed about that time.  It wasn't sealed when we built here.  It would have been about ... it might have been the '60s before it was sealed.  But of course the main road, Garfield Road, that was sealed quite early in the peace.  And Regent Street, that wasn't sealed when we were young.  I suppose they just gradually sealed them one after the other.
30.13	When did you notice the houses starting to be built around you?  

	Oh it's just gradually happened in a way.  After we built up here the three houses facing the road down the back there, they were built and my children were friendly with the families in those houses, so they had company.  The houses across the road, they were here when we came up, and well the other houses have just been coming up one after the other.

30.47	And did you like it better before, or do you like having more people around you?

	No, I liked it better before?

	Did you?  You didn't feel isolated at all before?

	Oh, no.  I loved it.  This house here - I suppose 15 years - that was built  We've always had very good neighbours, so I suppose I shouldn't complain about that.  I just like the paddocks and the space.

	You miss that feeling of the space do you?

	Yes.  Although it's still quiet.  

	Yes.

	You'd probably think, you know, it's very quiet.  There's quite a lot of traffic goes up that Riverstone Road though because it goes up to the High School.  

	Oh, right.

	But, no I liked it when it was a quiet little town.

31.38	And you knew more people then?

	Well you did.  You could go shopping and you'd know everybody in the shop, sort of thing.  The greengrocer's and the paper shop and the grocer's shop and you sort of knew everybody.

	And you found the shopping a bit more personal?  It's more impersonal today in the big supermarkets isn't it?

	Oh yes.  Well now you've got Jewel'sIt is more impersonal, although luckily I have the car now to do it in or I'd be hard done by!  (Laughs)

32.20	After the War when the European migrants started coming out to the western suburbs to live did you notice a lot of them coming to live out here at Riverstone?

	No, not a lot.

	So you didn't have much contact with any migrants at all?  None of your neighbours were migrants?
END OF 
SIDE A

SIDE B
00.05	The couple next door, they were migrants.  One came from Malta and the other from Yugoslavia and they were really nice people - good neighbours.  But they're not living there now.

	How did they find it?   How would the woman have found it moving here?  She wouldn't have been able to speak much English I suppose?

	Oh, yes.  Yes they could both speak English.  They had an accent, but they could both speak English, and their children were born in Australia and at one time she worked up at the High School.  I really don't know how she would have found it?

	It would have been quite different living in this fairly rural area as it was then.

	Oh, yes.  Well before they came to Riverstone they were up at Tamworth and Schofields which would have been even more country than Riverstone, but I sure she would have found it different.  She used to sometimes tell us about Malta in the War and, oh, it must have been terrible.

	They were probably feeling quite grateful to be able to be here I suppose?

	Yes.  She would have come out, I think, in the '50s.

1.29	And did you keep any animals - did we talk about that?  Did you have a cow or anything like that?  You didn't you have chooks?  You had a few - but you don't remember them?

	Well I think my sister had a pet chook, but I don't know how many other chookds - I think they may have had a few chooks.  No.  We never had a cow.

	Did you have any pets?

	Oh, yes.  We had cats.  We always had a cat, and at one time we had a dog.  The dog was really my father's dog.

	And what about your children?  Did they have pets?

	Cats ... and Diamond!

	Diamond's the dog?

	Diamond the dog!  When Beverley moved out of home - she would have been about 18 - and she got Diamond as a pup.  Oh, and she was a beautiful little black dog, but it was too hard keeping a pup in rented accommodation.  Of course she was at work all day and the dog didn't behave itself.  So she sort of brought it up here, where it has stopped every since.  She wouldn't get it away now!  Yes.  They've always had cats though and kittens.  Diamond's the first dog.

2.53	Did your daughters go on to tertiary education or did they go to business college or - what did they do?

	Lyn just learned typing, and Rosemary went on to ... she went to what they called the Institute of Technology, which is now the University of Technology.  Yes.  She did a B.A. in Science - Environmental Science - but she's doing clerical work now too.

	Is she?

	So, Beverley started to do a Tech course but she gave that up and she's now working as a Laboratory Technician.

	And does she enjoy that:

	Yes.  She does.  She likes it.

	And what about Rosemary, what does she do?

	She's working for the Taxation Office, but she's got a very good position and she enjoys it.  So even though it's not her chosen field, she's doing quite well.

4.15	Well, I think we've just about discussed everything I was planning to ask you about.  So, after reflecting on your life in the '40s and through the '50s, how do you feel that suburbanisation has affected this area?  You know, the population expansion and the build-up of housing and so forth?

	Well I think there's a lot more crime.

	Do you?

	Not particularly in this area, because we've been very lucky against that.  But you sort of have the feeling that things aren't as secure as once they used to be.

	And I suppose you have to lock up more carefully now?

	Oh, you do.  Before you go out now, you lock up, and one time you'd probably leave the back door open and go down to talk to your neighbours or something.  Well you just don't do that now.  If you're going away you just shut the door.  You just have the feeling that things aren't as secure as they could be.  Even when you go out on the trains.  I mean travelling on trains is just part of every day life to us, but I wouldn't be at all happy now coming home on the train at night.  Whereas once we used to do it without even thinking twice about it.

5.56	And what about the ... have many old buildings been demolished to make way for new buildings in this area?

	Well there's still quite a lot of old buildings around here.  I think the modern buildings have just more or less grown up in between.  In the town area though some of the old ones of been knocked down and some of others have just been modernised, on top of it sort of thing.

	So, you don't have this feeling that you've lost a lot of the old heritage - you know the buildings that have been buldozed as they have in some of the other areas?

	Oh, well the old pub has been buldozed.  That, I think, could have been a heritage building because it had the wrought iron railings and everything around it.  But that was just demolished.

	And what's replaced that?

	Well nothing at the moment.  It's sort of just an empty block.  They did build another hotel next to it, sort of thing.  But the new hotel is just a brick building.  It has no character or anything.

	That's a shame isn't it.

	But we're lucky we still have the churches and a couple of the really old places in the town.  The Riverstone-Blacktown Museum is where the original school was.

	Oh yes.

	So that's still here, which is very good.

7.26	And what about the traffic?  That's a lot busier than it was?

	Oh, much busier, yes.  Going through the main street of town now it can ben quite hectic at times.  Yes.  There's much more traffic.

7.46	And do you find shopping these days ... how does that compare to shopping, you know, in the late '40s and the early '50s?

	Well I suppose having Jewel's here it's probably a lot easier for us in one way, and yet it's not so much usually because you've got to do it all yourself.

	Yes.  There's more to choose from I guess?

	There's more to choose from, but at one time you could go down the street and leave your order and have it delivered.  Well, you still do that with Jewel's if you pay a couple of dollars.  But most people don't.  You just go in and push it out yourself.  But I don't enjoy shopping.  I don't think shopping's very enjoyable.

	Did you find it enjoyable in the earlier days?

	It seemed to be more of a leisurely thing, I think, because you could always find someone to talk to and, as I say, we used to often stop at Mum's half-way and do the shopping and have afternoon tea or morning tea of something.

8.55	You don't find people visit as much these days?  Visit each other?

	Oh, no.  'Cause most people are at work.

9.05	So how do you think it is for young people in the area now, bringin up children - young mothers?

	I think it must be very difficult.  We have a pre-school in the town now but I never felt the need for a pre-school.  When my kiddies were little they always had somebody to play with.  

	And you were always at home?

	Well I was at home, yes.  But they'd go across the road to play or they'd go down the back to play.  And when you ask what they played and what they did, it's hard to remember.  In the summer they had their paddle pool, they had their dolls and toys and a sandpit ... oh, a swing.  Just things like that at home.  So I think they probably had a better time than the little ones now.

	What do the little ones now do?  I mean ...

	Watch television as far as I can hear, and I think that's terrible.

	Yes, they seem to not be so good at making their own fun as they were in the old days when you had to improvise a little bit more.

	Oh, no.  I don't think television's good for them at all.  Oh, my kids watch television.  We got television about l962 or '63 and they watched television, but not all the time.  But nowadays it seems to be television and videos, and everywhere the little ones go they go in the car.

10.52	It's a different way of life!

	I heard the other day - somebody said that children under eight shouldn't be out on the road on their own.  Well that's terrible isn't it.  I mean my five year-olds once they got used to the root walked to school and walked home.  But now there's so much traffic around and so many strange people, so I think they miss out a lot.

11.23	Would you say that they don't have the same sense of freedom these days?

	I wouldn't think so.

	And there's not the same space?

	Oh well I suppose people still have their backyards.

	But not the paddocks to ride a horse in and that sort of thing?

	No not the paddocks.

11.47	And what about industry in the area?  How has that changed?

	It's grown a lot.  The industrial area up at Vineyards now has so many factories that I wouldn't know half of them.  But when we were young it was just the meatworks and the shops mainly in the area.  You had to go away to work.

	And what was in Vineyards then before the industry?

	Bush.

	Just bush?

	Just bush.

12.16	Were there lots of market gardens around and orchards, or what was the main ...?

	My grandparents - my mother's parents - had orchards.  There was a lot of orchards around.  And then the market gardens seemed to come.  I believe a lot of migrants had market gardens around the area, but now a lot of them have gone for housing.  They just started to build houses here, there and everywhere.

12.47	And it's still growing a lot isn't it, this area?

	Well Riverstone itself I think has more or less stopped because there's a limit to the land.  But once you get into Schofields and Quakers Hill, oh, that's terrible.  Nothing but hundreds and hundreds of little houses and it used to be just bush, and I think we're going to notice the effect of that.  You know, just going out on the roads now, going to Blacktown where we do most of our extra shopping, just in Blacktown.  I think it's going to be too overgrown  But land in Riverstone - well there's not much spare land left in Riverstone.

13.37	So how do you feel about that? 

	Oh I wish it had stopped as it was - small!  No, too much traffic, too much noise.  And I think even now you notice the traffic down the street.  It's just so busy and the parking area - Jewel have a parking area more or less of their own - it's nearly always full.  So it's just a gradual build-up of people and cars.

	So Riverstone's more or less full up, you'd say?

	I think so, 'cause if you look at it Riverstone is sort of a little area on its own.

14.24	And I suppose it once had a village feeling as if it was a village and it was a lot smaller?

	Yes.  I think so, with it's little shopping area and the churches and the schools.  Well now see the High School brings in students from the whole area and it's just sort of opened up so much.  But it has changed.

14.40	And would you say for the better or the worse?

	Oh, well I suppose I couldn't say for the worse!  It's developed.  That's just natural.  But it doesn't have its quiet little country feeling any more.

	Yes.  It's just changed into a busy place.

	It's just grown.  

15.13	OK.  Well thank you very much.  I think that's covered everything now.

	Well I don't know whether that's going to be much help for you.  It's not terribly exciting.

	It's very interesting.  Thank you very much.
END OF TAPE.
		




